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1. Call to Order
Co-Chair Maxwell called the meeting to order at 1:30 p.m., at the ESRI, Corporate Offices in Eagan.
Members present: Bob Basques (City of St. Paul); David Claypool (Ramsey County); Sherry Coatney (Intergraph);
John Connelly (St. Paul & Ramsey County Charter Commissions); Will Craig (UM CURA); Dan Falbo (ESRI); Rick Gelbmann
(Metropolitan Council); Jay Krafthefer (Mn/DOT); Susanne Maeder (LMIC); Jim Maxwell (The Lawrence Group); Bob Moulder
(Hennepin County); Michael Munson (Metropolitan Council); Rick Person (City of St. Paul); Bart Richardson (DNR IS);
Mike Rowekamp (Rowekamp Associates); Scott Simmer (Hennepin County); Ronald Wencl (USGS); Tim Zimmerman (Hennepin
County)
Members absent: Roger Carlson (City of Minneapolis); Elliott Graham (Ramsey County); Blaine Hackett
(PlanSight, LLC); Jane Harper (Washington County); Donna Roper (Minneapolis Public School District); Ben Verbick
(LOGIS)
Visitors: Chris Cialek (LMIC); Bob Diedrich (SRF Consulting); Dan Pfeffer (Scott County); James Bundy (Scott
County); William Brown (Hennepin County); Jim Dickerson (LMIC); Cathy Grams (Rowekamp Associates); John Hoshal (LMIC);
Don Yeager (LMIC); Sally Wakefield (LMIC); Janice Rettman (Ramsey County); Brad Henry (City of Minneapolis); Gary
Stevenson (Dakota County); Kent Tupper (Dakota County); Randy Knippel (Dakota County), Dan Bartholic (City of St.
Paul); William Brown (Hennepin County); Peter Henschel (Carver County); Gordon Chinander (Carver County); Damon
Dougherty (Intergraph); Lynn Lamotte (ESRI); Mike Johnson (ESRI); Dick Chronowski (ESRI); Scott Merkley (City of St.
Louis Park); Mark Kotz (Metropolitan Council); Alison Slaats (Metropolitan Council)
Staff: Theresa Foster (MetroGIS Technical Coordinator); Randy Johnson (MetroGIS Staff Coordinator)
2. Accept Agenda
Member Wencl motioned to accept the agenda as submitted, Member Connelly seconded.
Motion carried.
3. Introduction of Team Members
Co-Chair Maxell welcomed the new members of the team (Rowekamp, Falbo, Simmer and Coatney) and then all
members and welcomed the new guests from each county. Maxwell stated that due to the data distribution demonstration we
will be sticking to the schedule pretty close.
4. Accept Meeting Minutes
Member Maxwell motioned to accept the meeting minutes from June 6, 2000, Member Gelbmann seconded.
Motion carried.
5a. NSSDA - Best Management Practice
Chris Cialek, LMIC, presented a brief overview of the NSSDA and what it means to MetroGIS stakeholders in the
reporting of spatial accuracy of maps and geospatial data. The three fundamentals to the NSSDA are; no measurement is
ever exact, statistics and precision vs. accuracy. The third part of the five NSSDA standards focuses on defining
accuracy; describing a method to test spatial data for positional accuracy, identifies a well-defined statistic used to
describe accuracy test results and provides a common way to report accuracy. The Positional Accuracy Handbook, prepared
by the MN Governors Council, breaks down the federal standard into 7 steps, provides explanation and offers a variety
of case studies to follow when applying the standard to your spatial data. More information about the National Standard
can be found at
http://www.fgdc.gov/standards/status/sub1_3.html . More information about the Minnesota's Positional Accuracy
Handbook and to download the documents and worksheet can be found at
http://www.mnplan.state.mn.us/press/accurate.html.
Member Wencl recommend adoption of Minnesota IRM Standard 19, Version 1: A Methodology for Measuring and
Reporting Positional Accuracy in Spatial Data as a "Best Management Practice" for use by all MetroGIS stakeholders,
Member Craig seconded.
Motion carried.
5b. Technical Team - Work Plan Priorities 2001
Member Maxwell introduced the generalized team work plan for the year 2001 and highlighted priorities for the
coming year. Member Wencl commented that item number three should be coupled with general work plan number four. Member
Craig asked when the school district boundaries peer review will be scheduled. Foster commented that it will be held on
November 30th. Foster reiterated that this was a general work plan and that specific tasks for the year 2001 will be
talked about in further agenda items as well as assignment duties by Technical Advisory Team members at the next
meeting in January. A detailed schedule of information was passed out to members prior to the meeting.
Member Wencl moved to accept the generalized work plan with the aforementioned changes, Member Gelbmann
seconded.
Motion carried.
5c. Data Distribution Demonstration - ArcIMS
Member Maxwell reminded members that MetroGIS will be looking at different data distribution mechanisms for
larger datasets based upon future needs of MetroGIS users. The basis for each demonstration will be on the
capabilities of accessing and distributing large datasets, architecture of their system, technical tools, benefits,
data security and access, and any data standards that are in place and/or required to support each system.
Mike Johnson, Dan Falbo and Dick Chronowski demonstrated the distribution system ArcIMS. Mike Johnson shared
with the members ESRI’s Vision of using ArcIMS as a data delivery mechanism, specifically; services, applications,
data and e-commerce. ArcIMS can be used by organizations needing to build applications and distribute data data over
their network; developers building web-based locational services and geographic applications and e-Commerce managers
who serve data and services. ArcIMS today support web standards; integrates with a variety of clients including HTML
and Java. ArcInfo 8.1 and ArcView 8.1 become intelligent clients on the Internet able to access remote data served from
ArcIMS services.
Questions and Answers (During Meeting):
Q: During zooming, in ArcIMS, can themes be forced to turn on at user specific levels rather than from the
server side configurations?
A: Can use the .axl default file to give the client a spatial tool to fill the .axl request.
Q: How does the process of data extraction work in the architecture of ArcIMS?
Client sends a request to the Map Service
Map Service responds through the application (MapService responds with a file instead of a link)
Q: What priority standards or coordination is required between (Client and Server) and (Multiple Servers)?
A: Data needs to be available on the map service server to show up.
Be aware of projection differences - data needs to have the projection info. HTML and Java viewers could be
built to grab the data in a specified projection.
No reprojections on the fly (out of the box).
Q: What location does Map Notes get stored in:
A: The Administrator could control where and who can store and get at map notes. The Designer sets up access
to the server side.
Q: Can others respond to Map Notes?
A: No, Map Notes can only be viewed by others but they cannot edit them.
A: Edit Process w/administrative privileges can be done on the server side to do automated processing of edit
notes.
Q: Is the MrSID image that gets sent over a .png representation of the MrSID image?
A: ??
Q: What can the end user print from the viewer?
A: The end-client can print what is in the browser view.
Q: How can you determine performance of the Server when running multiple Map Services?
A: Scalability in architecture.
A: There are web tools available to monitor performance.
A: Dependent on CPU, Map Server Hosts, and Data Servers. You will need a fast link between your map server and
data server.
S (Randy Knipple): There is a need for MetroGIS to collaborate and provide standards in order for this type of
service to be provided/portable from county to county. If you keep it (ArcIMS) to serving up simple images the end user
base will be expanded. Suggests keeping it basic. Allow low-tech and non-GIS users easy access to information. Example:
Custom Image Map Service on parcels and PIN for each county eliminates sales of data by serving images.
Q: Does ArcIMS work with ArcInfo coverages?
A: Must use ArcSDE to serve up coverages. Can run ArcIMS on shapefiles. Doesn't require ArcSDE, but
shapefiles can break down with multiple users accessing the data.
Q: Discuss the size of datasets useable without having to use SDE? Mention performance implications.
A: Shapefiles as previously stated do break down with multiple services and users. The metro-area data was in
shapefile format but could be better server by using SDE.
Q: Are there any standards in place for the feature streaming?
A: Unsure, but ESRI will look into it.
A: GML (an XML extension)/ is an emerging internet standard for points, lines and polygons.
Java specification, SDK in the future, ArXML documents now.
Q: What can you do on the server side to limit a client from overloading the server?
A: You could check for extents or # of records and perhaps differ downloading or view data to a later time? Or
you could possibly build in scale dependency layers to eliminate the time to draw or access data.
Q: When you use the extract service and select by feature what data do you receive?
A: All data in shapefile format with in the browser view, doesn't clip parcel boundaries, buffers them.
Q: What if we have licensed data like parcels and attributes how can we provide access to the data to only
specified users?
A: User access built into site (custom user password) or develop different services dependent on site
parameters. Control in Web design tools not through ArcIMS.
Q: What are the specific GIS to desktop applications in using a ArcIMS service?
A: Can use the data in ArcView, Arc Explorer, Java Apps built knowing AXL model.
Questions and Answers (Post-Its):
Q: Can users download and save the datasets (shapefiles) to their own hard drives?
A: Yes through data steaming.
Q: How is a data provider recognized in situations where they are 2nd or 3rd party to
the data user? As also applied to understanding data quality between the various datasets?
A: Do not understand the question.
Q: Is what Mike Johnson described a services and vision a reality today? List some sites to examine; prefer
parcel based sites.
A: Look at Geography Network
Overall Evaluation:
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Question:
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Ability to access and distribute large datasets
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Architecture of the system
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Technical tools of the system
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Benefits of the system
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Information about data security and access
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Data Standards required to support system
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Participant
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
1
|
1
|
3
|
4
|
4
|
2
|
3
|
2
|
3.00
|
|
2
|
2
|
3
|
3
|
3
|
3
|
2
|
3
|
2.83
|
|
3
|
3
|
3
|
3
|
3
|
2
|
3
|
2
|
2.67
|
|
4
|
4
|
3
|
2
|
3
|
2
|
2
|
2
|
2.33
|
|
5
|
5
|
3
|
3
|
3
|
3
|
3
|
3
|
3.00
|
|
6
|
6
|
4
|
4
|
4
|
3
|
1
|
1
|
2.83
|
|
7
|
7
|
4
|
3
|
4
|
4
|
2
|
2
|
3.17
|
|
8
|
8
|
4
|
4
|
4
|
4
|
3
|
3
|
3.67
|
|
9
|
9
|
3
|
3
|
2
|
2
|
2
|
2
|
2.33
|
|
10
|
10
|
3
|
4
|
3
|
3
|
3
|
2
|
3.00
|
|
11
|
11
|
3
|
3
|
3
|
3
|
3
|
2
|
2.83
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Avg
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3.27
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3.27
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3.27
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2.82
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2.45
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2.18
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2.88
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Would you like to see more demonstrations on data distribution? 5(Y) no(N)
Comments on Evaluation Forms:
There was some (a lot) of pretty heavy technical (HTML, XML, AXL, Java) information that requires
background/knowledge/experience on the subject to fully comprehend and/or appreciate the extent of the topic (i.e.
there was a lot over my head!)
Fully agree with Randy Knipple's comment.
This tool brings forward the need for standardized data (among participants in MetroGIS for example) than ever
before.
Services/apps/data/e-commerce improvements on the way
E-commerce revenues and enhanced applications to explode
Web/WAN/LAN/wireless applications will be seamless.
Parcel data, for example, could be on county servers and access via MetroGIS Website.
ArcIMS Manager allows complete back-end control of what browser user can see.
Printing/file saving features of great benefit to end user.
6. Information Items
Member Maxwell stated the following information items are for your information only and will not be discussed
today.
7. Next Meeting
Next meeting is tentatively scheduled for January 9, 2001, from 2-4:00 p.m., at the Metropolitan
Mosquito Control District. (Rescheduled - January 17, 2001, 8:30 - 11:30 a.m. City of Minneapolis)
8. Adjourn
Maxwell moved and Connelly seconded to adjourn at 4:30 p.m.
Motion carried unanimously.
Prepared by Theresa K. Foster, MetroGIS Technical Coordinator
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